Few hands from a live tourney yesterday (Edit: Stack sizes and suits may not be exact, but close enough hopefully!). Opinions and criticisms welcome...


#1

Down to 12 or 13 (I forget), average stack about 60k. I'd just been moved from another table where I was the one of the bigger stacks to here where (I think) everyone had me covered. First hand after I sat down...



a. Player 3... I'd played with him once before and from what I had seen he appeared to be a competant/good player. What could we reasonably expect him to show here

b. Player 1 (my) fold - completely ridiculous or should I have been shoving over the top even with Player 2 still to act

Uh I hate it! Tough spot, I think I can find a fold here but I don't like it.

Infact close ur eyes and get it over the top, with stack sizes, Player 2 could have KQ, KJ etc and Player 3 will be shoving flush draws.

Ur basically behind to a set at the moment - I think Player 3 would be reshoving with any pair pre flop (except maybe KK which is unlikely in this circumstances). Its a good chance to make a load of chips here and ur against the blinds.

The fact its taken me 20 mins to write this post and I'm not sure either way shows how sure I am.

1st im making it 16k pre just incase of a small pair behind which im hoping will get folded.
i dont think im foldong tbh i think im shoving and squuezing my cheeks for the inevitable set on the river.
_________________
IM NOT f*CK*NG SHORT,

Wow.

I mean wow.

What exactly do you put player 3 on when he leads out He has 6 bb's left. He could have anything in this spot.

I don't see how you read on player 3 'he is competant' can be correct here. He starts the hand with 10bb, but is calling off a 1/3 of his stack preflop Any competant player I know that has 10bb in the bb, either raises or folds in this position.

Besides that, I can understand the reasoning for laying down TPTK if you are in player 2 position and the action has gone bet, re-raise for example.

How can you possibly justify laying this hand down to a small bet for the BB

I just don't get it to be honest.

Errr wow

I am never folding there...

stowjon wrote: 1st im making it 16k pre just incase of a small pair behind which im hoping will get folded.
i dont think im foldong tbh i think im shoving and squuezing my cheeks for the inevitable set on the river.

I'd been going 2.5x the whole tourney, as it was my first hand at the new table I guess no-one would have noticed a larger raise though![/b]

I'd been going 2.5x the whole tourney, as it was my first hand at the new table I guess no-one would have noticed a larger raise though![/b]

i am such a nit

Slightly re-arranged...

Poker Jon wrote: How can you possibly justify laying this hand down to a small bet for the BB

I wasn't aware I had tried to justify it (yet!), I was just asking some questions...

Edit: And that 'small' bet was half my stack with a player still to act


Poker Jon wrote: I don't see how you read on player 3 'he is competant' can be correct here. He starts the hand with 10bb, but is calling off a 1/3 of his stack preflop Any competant player I know that has 10bb in the bb, either raises or folds in this position.

My 'read' was just an observation from playing a couple of hours with him at the last LPC deepstack - as mentioned hadn't played a hand with him in this tourney.

Poker Jon wrote: What exactly do you put player 3 on when he leads out He has 6 bb's left. He could have anything in this spot.

Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

Edit2: In terms of what he had, I'm not sure what I thought he had, but at the time I was convinced that I must be behind :S

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses

Poker Jon wrote: I just don't get it to be honest.

+1

Do we want results, or should I leave it for a while

Last edited by DCSW7 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total Back to top DCSW7
Straight Flush


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2808
Location: Spewing @ PLO
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

I wasn't aware I had tried to justify it (yet!), I was just asking some questions...

Edit: And that 'small' bet was half my stack with a player still to act


Poker Jon wrote: I don't see how you read on player 3 'he is competant' can be correct here. He starts the hand with 10bb, but is calling off a 1/3 of his stack preflop Any competant player I know that has 10bb in the bb, either raises or folds in this position.

My 'read' was just an observation from playing a couple of hours with him at the last LPC deepstack - as mentioned hadn't played a hand with him in this tourney.

Poker Jon wrote: What exactly do you put player 3 on when he leads out He has 6 bb's left. He could have anything in this spot.

Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

Edit2: In terms of what he had, I'm not sure what I thought he had, but at the time I was convinced that I must be behind :S

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses

Poker Jon wrote: I just don't get it to be honest.

+1

Do we want results, or should I leave it for a while

Last edited by DCSW7 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total Back to top DCSW7
Straight Flush


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2808
Location: Spewing @ PLO
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

My 'read' was just an observation from playing a couple of hours with him at the last LPC deepstack - as mentioned hadn't played a hand with him in this tourney.

Poker Jon wrote: What exactly do you put player 3 on when he leads out He has 6 bb's left. He could have anything in this spot.

Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

Edit2: In terms of what he had, I'm not sure what I thought he had, but at the time I was convinced that I must be behind :S

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses

Poker Jon wrote: I just don't get it to be honest.

+1

Do we want results, or should I leave it for a while

Last edited by DCSW7 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total Back to top DCSW7
Straight Flush


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2808
Location: Spewing @ PLO
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

Edit2: In terms of what he had, I'm not sure what I thought he had, but at the time I was convinced that I must be behind :S

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses

Poker Jon wrote: I just don't get it to be honest.

+1

Do we want results, or should I leave it for a while

Last edited by DCSW7 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total Back to top DCSW7
Straight Flush


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2808
Location: Spewing @ PLO
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

+1

Do we want results, or should I leave it for a while

Last edited by DCSW7 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total Back to top DCSW7
Straight Flush


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2808
Location: Spewing @ PLO
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

thegrimble wrote: i am such a nit

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

Guess that makes two of us!

I've got more hands to follow, but I'm having problems with the replayer - it doesn't like some of my scenarios (eg BB having enough chips to post!) I will make seperate threads though

[quote="DCSW7"]



Poker Jon wrote: What exactly do you put player 3 on when he leads out He has 6 bb's left. He could have anything in this spot.

Quote: Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses



My bad - mis read the action.

I still don't think it makes that much of a difference - we have 15 bb's left with 17bb's in the pot when it gets to your decision.

If your not sticking it in here, then I am not sure when you should be sticking it in

Even if you are behind player 3, you can still get your money back through player 2.

If player 2 has a draw, I am making him pay to get there. If he has K5 then he is awful. If he has KK, then he is awful, if he has 22 or 55, he is awful, as all 4 of these hands should be re-raising a mid stack button raise at this stage in the tourney.
My question still stands:

What range of hands do you put BOTH players on to make this fold. You have to have them on precisly kk/55 and 22 in order to fold this at this stage, with that stack size, in my opinion.

Jon

Quote: Player 3 doesn't lead out - he re-raises all-in with the pre-flop raiser still to act. I had to put him on some kind of made hand already... surely he must be expecting to go to showdown here as the small blind is already priced in even if I fold

If I overshoved, the small blind would then be getting about 4/1 to call me so I would assume he's probably calling if he has any draw or made hand. Especially as he's still got over twice the average stack if he loses



My bad - mis read the action.

I still don't think it makes that much of a difference - we have 15 bb's left with 17bb's in the pot when it gets to your decision.

If your not sticking it in here, then I am not sure when you should be sticking it in

Even if you are behind player 3, you can still get your money back through player 2.

If player 2 has a draw, I am making him pay to get there. If he has K5 then he is awful. If he has KK, then he is awful, if he has 22 or 55, he is awful, as all 4 of these hands should be re-raising a mid stack button raise at this stage in the tourney.
My question still stands:

What range of hands do you put BOTH players on to make this fold. You have to have them on precisly kk/55 and 22 in order to fold this at this stage, with that stack size, in my opinion.

Jon

My bad - mis read the action.

I still don't think it makes that much of a difference - we have 15 bb's left with 17bb's in the pot when it gets to your decision.

If your not sticking it in here, then I am not sure when you should be sticking it in

Even if you are behind player 3, you can still get your money back through player 2.

If player 2 has a draw, I am making him pay to get there. If he has K5 then he is awful. If he has KK, then he is awful, if he has 22 or 55, he is awful, as all 4 of these hands should be re-raising a mid stack button raise at this stage in the tourney.
My question still stands:

What range of hands do you put BOTH players on to make this fold. You have to have them on precisly kk/55 and 22 in order to fold this at this stage, with that stack size, in my opinion.

Jon